Hawaii Real Estate | Hawaii Relocations | Hawaii Home Buying & Selling

This is just crazy, Sally.  How much the seller paid for the house has nothing to do with the current market value. 

Shirtey: Of course it doesn't....just want validation that I AM thinking straight here.

Counter offer. Counter offer. counter offer.

That would be my answer to all of the questions!

Sally I agree with Shirley.  Just because someone got a great deal when they bought the property, has nothing to do with what they should be able to get for it now.

They will soon learn how many offers it will take to get to the bottom of a tootsie roll tootsie pop :grin:

#1:  Don't say they are qualified when they are not.

#2:  Needs to get a Sentricard and quit playing Trivial Pursuit while they should be talking with their clients about the home and observing their actions/reactions.  Will show more houses if you do that!

#3:  The tax record tactic doesn't work.  Where does your client find the value at?  Look at closed comparables and active listings and quit being plain silly.

For Sally:  It takes me 5 minutes to write a counter and fax it to the sellers.  Write a counter on the lowball at full price.  Pretend your sellers are playing.  If they want to waste my time I will waste theirs:)  Either the agent will realize their stupidity and not waste time with their "tactics" or they may actually counter reasonably.

Hey Sally,

Hope you feel better - and stay better.

Some agents just aren't thinking!  

Hi Sally, luckily more agents are getting out of the business than in the business.  There are certainly challenges when working with new agents.  Hopefully they'll catch some training every now and then because it sounds like they could use a bunch!

Sis - Hope you are feeling better. 

"The agent says because they looked on the tax records and sawa how much my seller paid for it."   What?  Are they freaking serious?  That's a first I've heard of that one.  Never a dull day in this biz, is there?

Sally one of the toughest parts of being a buyers agent is remaining and advocate and not a salesperson. This can be difficult when an agent has to make a sale due to financial needs. The agent that can do that is a real pro.

Sally - well I had to laugh, but these stories, and others I have heard or experienced, are not funny. And here, sharing your card with another agent can lose you your MLS privileges, and worse.

And now that REALTOR.com is going to provide value information based on proerties sold in the last 18 months, well we will cetainly see more on-target offers, won't we?

Jeff

This is not uncommon, as buyer's are out to steal properties. It's not so much an insult, but there are sellers desperate enough to sell and will give away their property for whatever reason.

If the buyers really want the property, then they will pay closer to market value. Simply counter offer to a reasonable price or even list price if you're already below market value.

I'm by no means justifying the buyer's agent actions but keep in mind that he is representing the buyer after all. Now it's your turn to represent the seller and get them more for their house.

It's important to not take this personally, and simply negotiate. Keep in mind that people are scared and most buyers are under the mentality of I-will-buy-only-if-I-get a "good deal". The problem is that they are thinking short term almost as if they are going to flip the house, not long term where they'll buy and hold the property for 7 or 10+ years.

So don't get discouraged, simply counter offer and don't take anything less than your clients should get.

Hope that helps!

I think you should send a copy of Donkey Kong to #2. It sounds like it is what he needs. #1 & 3 just are poor imitations of real Realtors. Keep you head up, you done good!

Hi Sally, I am glad you are getting over your strep throat.  This is one reason why Realtors have a bad image in the eyes of some consumers.  It's not just the new ones either.  I worked recently with a couple that have been in the business forever and have much more experience than me, but OH BROTHER....they were unbelievable, and after 3 weeks they still have not taken the Supra lockbox off the sold home.

Of course you are thinking straight! although a little validation every so often never hurts.  :-) Have had a buyer say to me as we discuss making an offer -- well they only paid x dollars for it.  And i've responded emphatically ---   It makes no difference what they paid for it, show them comps and educate them as much as possible.  So far, they have paid attention to me and  listened!  Guess if they didn't, I'd have to politely let them go. 

Sally - Thes are the things that test our mettle. It infuriates me to see agents wo don't have their clients' best interest  at heart. It makes me sad for their clients.

Sally, I'm sorry to hear you weren't well and hope you are feeling much better.  I'm also sorry to hear about agents such as these...I really do feel sorry for their clients who are probably not even aware of their behavior.

Too many agents, how can I say this Sally, are just unprofessional. You are seeing it all. Hope you are feeling better.

Sally, I hear this stuff all day long. It just goes in one ear and out the other. Not much you can do sonce we can't control others. Eventually you'll be numbed to it all. Just go bang a gong :)

Woo Hoo, Glad you up and about and hopefully feeling better. In our last phone conversation-no action taken as of yet.

It seems that the market correction did not purge all the want-a-bes as yet. Shame, I know that we have lost some really ones in the market downfall.

I promised a post about this subject and I am still writing and editing it so I won"t spill the beans here but I certainly agree with you are saying here. Titled "Is there Cause for Alarm with declining Values".

Hello Sally....hope you are feeling better. I lay it on the line. Tell them exactly what you put in this post and move on......it has nothing to do with market value....step up or step out! Love ya!

Hi Sally,  Glad you're on the mend and posting!  In all three cases the agents are taking orders from their clients and not leading the way with professional advice.  Hopefully, they will realize this...I think their only agenda here is doing what the buyer tells them.  As professionals, we need to educate our buyers--and showings and writing offers are only the beginning of the process!  Cheers, Harley

Aloha Sally,

Sorry to say, things like this have become the norm. I just came from dinner with agents, all were complaining on the nature of today's business when it comes to the gross lack of professionalism. I said we can't fix others, we can just be the best we can be.

Sally - Hope you're feeling a lot better!  I've had experiences in all 3 scenarios and I just don't think some agents get it and take other people's time and effort into consideration.  Newer agents really need to have some type of mentoring from a more seasoned agent or work underneath another agent until they learn the ropes. 

Sally, I love the way you write and bring up day to day issues in our work environment. Great way to test the water and get a good discussion going! Unfortunately one of the greatest challenges for us is dealing with those who do not take this business seriously! Thanks again!

Hope you are better from the strep Sally.  I hate when someone does these things.  It is inexperience and not right.  I don't take offers that are presented without a viewing seriously although I will present them (as per law) I will advise my clients to come back with the response that the house must bu=e seen then we can talk about the offer.  Great points and I am sorry that your clients had to endure three in a row. 

Sally--I guess good help is hard to find isn't it? It shouldn't be as there are many good professional agents out there!

Sally - I have had the same question from buyers wanting to know what someone paid for a property, I suppose so they can find out the sellers "pain" so to speak. But it is not pertinent to current market value. Sorry it was a frustrating situation for you and your seller.

HI SALLY!

Ok...

 #1 He was a rude person, period.  If you don't have the decency to give a courtesy call then you're in the wrong biz.  Maintaining good, courteous relationships between realtors are critical.

#2  He obviously did not care for his buyer nor did he have respect for the seller.  If the seller is home when I show a house, I'm walking w/my buyer everywhere...so that that seller is at ease and doesn't feel uncomfortable in any way.

#3  I coach my buyers.  I tell them that you cannot steal it & you don't want to insult the sellers.  Personally, I don't want to waste my time writing and offer that I KNOW won't be accepted!

So, Sally there you have it...my 20 cents worth.  I feel your frustration.  Just go read a Gary Wortal post and you'll feel much better about it!!

Daniel: Why of course we did....

George: Correct....and when representing a buyer I always ask...how bad do you want this home?  If it's something they really want...suits their family...why try being a killer negotiater and lose the place you love?

Renee: Yup... they'll be finding out. You are thinking along the same lines as I. Now....to wait and see what happens today :)

Laurie: I am...and I just don't get it.

Darla: For one....it's imperative that newer agents...even older ones....realize what "thinking in the best interests of their client" really means.

Lil Bro: I am....really kicks butt this thing. We never do have dull moments. Like we always say....there will never be two transactions exactly alike. Why? Humans are involved :)

Bill: A good agent does not put words in their clients mouths....they give scenarios and some worldly real estate advice. Surely, agreeing with a client that they should low ball based on how much the seller bought it at is NOT sound advice.

Jeff: Yup....we all are laughing at the valuation they will provide.... we might as well go with the media on the "NATIONWIDE stats' and be done with it :)

Anonymous: Some of your points are valid...but it IS insulting to some sellers. I would be. Nature at its best to take things personal when it's your home.  Thing is....my seller does not have to sell. He's not in a bind and if he can't sell at his already reasonable price that is lower in this neighborhood than others...then he'll just wait. And representing a buyers best interests is to not chime in and agree the offer can be a lowball because of when and how much my seller bought it at. Let's just give wrong info to our buyers and let them lose the home they really want for the sake of "a deal".

Fred: I am looking out for the best interests of my seller. He was willing to negotiate but this just left a bad taste in his mouth. The first one really was "hoping" and the second one needs to get instructions on how to show a property.

Ann: You're right on the money with that one. Doesn't matter how long....matters what kind of quality service they gave too. These just happened to be newer agents.....  I really don't like agents pretending when they don't know.

Sally... all 3 are very, very sad....  this kind of crap ticks me off...  just as the media has been pissing me off...   The first one... well qualified, but still shopping programs.???  If qualified VA, that is the best way to go in today's market.... no money down and no mortgage insurance, with the same rate as an FHA mortgage. PPPllllleeeasssseeee..

The second one... not only not having their own card.... but then hung up on the sellers stuff and as you said, not viewing the house with the client?

The last one... no comment...  I have a few words for those buyers and that realtor... that realtor should be taking control and explaining the buyer that some people bought long ago at a cheap price... some homes gained value... and then throw in a few examples. Like... if I bought a coin at mint condition 50 years ago for $100 and it's book value is now worth $1,000, you want to buy it from me for $100?  lol  What, so you can turn around and sell it for $800? 

I tend to agree with anonymous. 

The buyers agent is representing the buyer, not the seller.  As a selling agent you want the perfect deal, as the buyers agent I want the perfect deal, but we both advise our clients accordingly. 

No matter what my buyer bids, the seller has the option to accept, reject, or counter. 

When I represent the seller, the seller is informed that this happens.  The emotional aspect needs to be removed from the transaction.  Its not personal.  Thats my coaching to the seller though.  Lowball offers are going to happen, don't take them personal, thats my coacking to the seller though.  You seller does not have to sell, then they can reject the offer.  In the meantime as they "test the waters", they will have to endure the pain of selling a property. 

Sounds like you have unmotivated sellers, with unmotivated buyers looking at the property.  Where can you win in that situation? 

Alexsandra: You're on the same wave length too. Yup....and that's another point I'm making....Validation and getting MANY opinions here....surely adds substance to the topic!

Tom: I can believe it's both sides....who are trying to be killer negotiaters...in the meantime I continue to ask.....how bad does your buyer want this home? If they are just looking for a deal and don't care about the home....or investors....move on. This isn't the right home for you.

Sally-I have heard that over and over again...since I have been in real estate...Well I saw what they paid for it and owe...and you are right...so what ...who cares but I do think think at least in our current market we have to set the seller up...meaning forewarn them of these low ball offers..yes on the listing side its difficult to have to do...especially when property values have dropped so much..but for me...I just let the seller know its a good starting point...and to counter offer in the best way that they can...we have to really believe there is value even in low ball offers...because so many seller get no offers at all! 

As far as sharing a lockbox..in our board its a violation and you could very  well lose your privelidges...great post girl and I hope you are feeling better! :)

The obvious answer is what someone paid for the property has no bearing on it's value now.  We see this in both directions at this time.  A home that sold for $290,000 a year or two ago could be selling for $140,000 now (yes I see this here in CA) or you may have purchased 20 years ago and have alot of equity in the home if it wasnt used as an ATM.  Buyers often believe what they read in the papers or comments from others an buy into the idea no one would be selling right now if they didn't "have" to so they go for the throat and hope the seller is desperate.  Of course that thinking is predatory in nature and not pretty - but common.  There are many reasons to buy or sell right now and desperate does not have to be part of the equation.  This market will weed out many of the folks that are not professional in their conduct and respectful of others, of course there will always be some that thrive against all odds.

The agents each are there to be an advocate for their client and often their offers are not representative of their advise or opinion but at the bidding of their client.

Carole: I do believe that they stick out like a sore thumb when they don't know what they're talking about.  Thanks Carole...I'm feeling much better.

Gary: Yeah....no matter what the market...we will get all kinds...it's a good think to bring it front and center like this so the consumer knows what to look out for and realize that local areas differ. Now...there are "deals" in Ewa. :)

BB: Yeah....another good one to bang the gong on....these deserve three gongs :)

Hi William! Yeah...not all are gone...but I bet a few of the wannabees are :)  One thing is for certain....many need to go get a full time regular job. They aren't doing our industry justice when they're out to just make a buck.

Jeanean: Thanks much...now that I'm thinking clearer I can see all the happenings of the last week. Can you imagine the two weeks prior?

Harley:  I believe that it was the other way around ...they are on their own agenda. Especially the second one. He had no clue about going around with the clients...he stood there and started quizzing my client on his games and 'stuff'.  In any event...there is more to it than just writing an offer. WE DO the work with comps etc... with showings and with advising.

Lynda: Sooooo true! I know that there is a lack of education, responsibility and professionalism although the rest of us can keep being responsible ...keep getting educated and being professional.

Donna: No matter what the scenario...you are right on track with that one! I look back and look at even today......I still ask questions...I still get feedback...just like I'm doing righ here and now on this post :)  It's healthy to step in others shoes and at least take a look at other suggestions as well.

Thanks Russell: ActiveRain is so rich with conversation and education that it's the best place for me to get some feedback.

Paddy: Funny you should mention that....the agent never saw the home....only the clients did at Open House. At least they saw it....and they actually loved it. In any case, it's in my sellers hands ... I've given him scenarios and in the meantime I am having an Open again on Sunday. This past Sunday was BUSY!

In today's market, here in SoCal-Every offer is a low ball offer as far as I'm concerned.  All the comp's are either in foreclosure or REO's.  As a Buyer's only Agent/Investor/Advisor, I have my clients put in offers on two or three properties at the same time.  I don't have time to hold there hand or show them the property.  I make sure they are pre-qualified and most importantly know What there Buying, Where there Buying and who their buying from first before I negotiate the offer.  No matter what the asking price, the offer is always at least 10% or more below it.  Keep in mind!  I'm in SoCal, Inland Empire (Highest Foreclosure rate in the nation)  Some neighborhood prices$ are still going down 2-3% per month.  With that said;  The seller (other than the bank), usually ends up receiving the original list price, because now the property is getting multiple offers.  I've seen well located properties recently being sold for more than market value. My Investor clients won't participate-but the new first time buyers in the market today will.  FYI!  As a Buyer's agent the first piece of information I want and need to know is:  How much the seller paid for the property and when they bought it!!  Why?  To possibly negotiate TERM"S over PRICE!  I will always give the seller their Price if I can negotiate great terms.  I make sure my buyer clients are educated and know why terms are more important than price most of the time. I know I put in more than 2cents here, so please excuse me for that.  Had to vent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Teri: and it's the same story...if you don't know...don't pretend to. Geez.

Sharon: I can understand if in a deflating market... so far we have a couple of neighborhoods where prices went down.... Not in this neighborhood.

Yvette:

1....you got it

2...you got that too

3.....Oh, we're in a good space today....seller countered...then rejected their counter. This isn't a game for him. He wants to sell to someone who is not just out for a deal but making it a home like he did.....for the way fair price he's asking

Jeff: you and I...and many know that VA IS the way to go....I think he moved on to something and someone else. :)  And Mortgage Brokers like you have more knowledge than some of the agents. Happy 'almost' Halloween Jeff!

Chad: You have some valid points but no matter what.... I really doubt any of us compare market value (whether a down, median or high market) to sale value six years ago. Then....direct our buyers to offer according to what they bought it for. That just does not make any sense. I represent buyers as well (closed one a week and a half ago and one is recording tomorrow) and I educate them...... So if a seller bought their home 30 years ago and it's paid off you would instruct your buyer to offer ...what. Free?  I don't see the logic in insulting sellers. The seller is motivated but does not NEED to sell it. He would like to do other things but not let any buyer steal from him what he has worked hard for. I'll let you know when it's in contract. :)

Sally if you hear on the news about an earthquake in So Cal tonight don't worry....it's just me shaking my head and wondering what some people are thinking :)  Suggestions for new people...yea,

• if you don't know how to do something ASK.
  
• We are Agents FOR our client...they make the decisions not us
• Most of us work for our money, and letting clients walk through someones home without supervision isn't a good idea (vacant homes have more flexibility)
• Don't call Agents and say you are sending an Offer unless you have one...it's not good for your reputation at the very least :)

Midori: Our market in certain neighborhoods have only dropped 2%...I wouldn't say it were grounds for a low ball of 10% lower. In any event he's already (from the start) priced at 7% lower than others on the market. So 17% is ridiculous.  In any case, he was prepared for lower or asking for credit...but not like this....and not comparing to what he bought it for when it has no relevance.

Cynthia: Though the bidding from their client is obvious...it's not our job to chime in and say ..yeah, that's okay because the seller bought it at x amount. You're right...it's gone in both directions....but fortunately we still have a moving market. May not be moving as quickly as we'd all like...but moving none the less.

Matt: Oh, believe me....terms were countered all over the place as well.

I like your statement....I make sure my buyer clients are educated and know why terms are more important than price most of the time.

The pros and cons are serious issues. Especially if it's going to be their 'home'.

Another thing...I'm sorry...but representing buyers ....I DO make the time to show them homes...the one closing tomorrow ...I showed her 12 homes in one day...put in an offer right after and closing in 30...yes 30 days. Can't beat great service ...I tell ya! :)

Kathy: hahaha...that was pretty funny...you're just shaking you head at a bunch of stuff today, huh? lol! Tomorrow will be a better day....believe me. How's your back?

Sally- ....Tomorrow is going to be a Great Day I already wrote it into my Agenda..:)  My back is better, sore and weak but I can walk .....and that's a good thing LOL :)

Right, I see what you mean.  But I do think agents 1 and 3 were just jumping at the whim of their clients--showing them whatever they wanted to see without speaking to their lender about the preapproval and writing whatever price the buyer told them to write.  What I mean by needing to educate buyers and that showings and writing the offer is only the beginning is this: if an agent doesn't counsel the buyer well at these early stages, they won't be in good shape when the time comes to negotiate counters, deal with inspections, and handle the buyers requests for repairs, etc!  Cheers, Harley

Harley: Number 3 didn't even see the place....they came to open house :) How's that one? So now come the aha's! :)  I do believe that it's dust in the wind right about now. Sometimes things happen for a reason.  It's a good thing :)

Why am I not surprised?  Way to rise above!  Cheers, Harley :-)

Have a Happy Halloween!

Just part of my everyday life as a Realtor(R). You'll never get total efficiency in this business and there always seems to be people that like to slow down things for no reason and make my day harder...I just try to go with the flow and move on but I'll let the person know my feelings.

Hi Sally,

Here I thought I was the only one who had buyer agents that did this.  Just kidding!

This is almost funny as you read this and yet really a sad state of affairs when our colleagues are supposed to be professionals and they act this way.

Just curious, are your sellers normally there for showings?  We have our sellers leave for all showings here in Kansas.  Maybe a new blog topic for you??  Or have you already done that one?  With 639 blog posts you have covered about everything!!

Thanks!

Rob

Its is hard not to get emotional. Though, I find that the best response is a friend counter offer. Put it in writing and put it in front of them. Forget about all the sales speak between realtors who are not directly involved with the purchase and sale

Sally...this is priceless! These are the Agents who will hopefully get weeded out! I think that a few years of effortless sales has made for agents who have not worked on perfecting their craft! There will be plenty of time for that now!

I have stopped putting assessment cards in my packets for that very reason....it's either what they paid or a low assessment(last done when??) Buyers need to be educated by their Agents (or is it visa versa?)

Hi Sally, Glad you are getting better.  I am going to post something similar to this but from the buyer agent point of view.  I think the buyers, just like everyone else, listen to the media and think they can steal everything.  I wrote yesterday, the buyers wanted to know the same information, I told them and they made their offer.  I gave them my advice, they listened but still did what they wanted to do.

Sometimes I just let them do it because it lets them learn.  Yes, it may be a few extra steps, but I never want my client to feel in the back of their mind that "if I would have just done what I wanted to do, I might have gotten a better deal."

I tell them they may offend the seller, but the seller should just counter back.  I know it is hard, but don't take it so personal.  They are fishing because some sellers just might bite?

I hope you get your deal through.

Neal: I am by all means no perfectionist. I allow for mistakes.....what I am adamant about is being accountable for my blunders.  Moreso.....asking questions instead of assuming one is right is not a good thing.

When in doubt....ask.

Rob: No ...he's normally not there....and when they come in the late evening when he's home then he usually steps out.

James: We went through a couple of days ...a counter.. but you're right.....the talk ended after that first conversation.....and I just chose to be professional...not trying to make a friend.

Joan: Exactly! The assessments are bad news...the media is bad news...the agent has correct info.....usually. In the third case it was a matter of uneducated guesses.

Audrey: My concern is more for the reasoning the agent gave....that the seller paid X amount for the property way back when. The other part I totally agree.....then again...it's up to the seller and what he wants to accept. We all have to do what our clients want but it serves them no justice...on both sides to not give our expert advice. Happy Halloweeen! And no...things happen for a reason....ALWAYS.

I would never suggest that my buyer asks for the property for free.  (Although I did have one invester pay to give the property away thats another story though) .  I do look at the current market value, past sales, make assumptions on what the seller owes, gauge the sellers desire to sell, then we construct an offer.  It is not stealing because the seller Has the opportunity to respond.  An insult is a percieved emotion.  I could be sitting in a retraunt with my wife and a patron makes a pass at me.  I would be flattered (IF ONLY IT WOULD HAPPEN HAHA), my wife would be insulted.  In the reverse situation I would question the Man to see how much he was willing to buy me out of my marriage.  A bit extreme yes, but it's not offensive to me.   

I get my buyers the best price for a property.  I even advise them at times to come in at full price as It's a great deal.  Its their call.  I have recieved many a low ball offers on the listing side, and advise the client accordinly.  I always suggest a counter offer though.  As long as two parties are talking, there is a chance that middle grounds can be reached. 

Then there are always the people that want to disregard my advice and want a super low offer.  I educate them on the danger but in the end, its their choice.  So I will give the agent a call and give them a heads up that "I know its low", but its an offer, lets play.  When an agent starts using the words "steal" the property, or needs to send me justification of their pricing, well, it really then makes me believe that i'm on the right track. 

Chad: Good bunch of arguments here. I think we all conduct our business in different ways. Whatever works for you.....:)

It's amazing what we see agents do.  After a decade I'm rarely surprised.  Most really do work for their clients but some just seem to not give a flip.